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An interview with myself and the wonderful Dr. Pele Raymond on his show: Profitable Happiness. I share my business philosophy, an update on how Fame is doing and why I think there is an intimate connection between profit and happiness.
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Hello, happy people. Welcome to the Profitable Happiness Podcast. Hello everyone. This is Dr. Paa with the Profitable Happiness Podcast, and it is my pleasure to introduce to you today all the way from London, England, Tom Hunt. Tom, how
are you doing? Um, amazing. Thanks for that enthusiastic introduction.
Oh, absolutely.
I have to ask you, is it dark and gray and raining right now in London?
Can I show you? I don't know. Uh, I think I've got the background blood out, but it's actually like a beautiful, you probably can't see it. Oh,
there you go. That should Beautiful. That is a beautiful day. Yeah. Now the reason I ask you that question is because I gotta tell you, every single time I've been in London, it has been dark and gray and raining, so I'm really glad to hear that.
It's a wonderful day today,
Tom. Yeah. Yeah. I am fair considering like why I live in London, . It's good for thumb things. Yes,
absolutely. You know, Tom, we met on LinkedIn and I have to tell you, I was so excited to meet you. You are a founder, a B2B marketer, incredibly successful and all from bootstrapping your own business, and that's really what we wanna talk about today.
I wanna learn just how you created this kind of massive business success. Practically on your own. But before we do that, Tom, tell us what problem you solve in the world, right? What, what do you do for people? Um, just give us a sense of the problem that's out there that you, that you address uniquely in your business.
So
we start and grow podcast are B2B businesses, but the, I would say they've actually three. He's actually like, Three different types of people or groups of people that we help with. Famous to the company. So the first group is obviously the clients. So these are the people who we are like basically running and growing their podcast for.
So that's number one. Number two is the people within our business that our employees. And then number three is the guests that we bring on our client podcast when we, we'd help clients find guests for their shows. So there are. You could stay stakeholders to the company. And really, I see my job as like the creator of this system fame, to make all of their lives better, to make them all happy.
And if I can do that, then the business is gonna work, it's gonna grow, and then it's gonna be great for me as well. And so that is, I don't think it's just one group of people are one problem. I think there have three groups of people and each of they, each of them have their own problems that we can help.
Yeah. No, that's cool. And by, by the way, you have an awesome business name, fame, F E M E. How'd you come up with that? .
So I was looking for a name for the business and we. The brand is all about. What we try and do is make the, the host of the show who's from the client or the client's brand famous. If, if you do that with a B2B brand, your the amount you have to pay to acquire a customer decreases.
And so, The word famous, obviously needed to be within the brand. And then the word fame is quite, if a easy to remember, easy to spell, and also like emotionally, uh, charged a little bit, right? People have either positive or negative feelings about fame, and so that's what that, that. I basically thought of it one day I would wanna walk and then it seems to have worked quite well.
People, you know, if you've got a good name, when people actually, when you're talking to them, people you don't know that well, but they remember or they say the name of your company and so that does happen. They're not like, oh, so what are you working on? Some people are like, so you're working on how's fame going?
And so I thinks actually a good name. I think it's
an awesome name. Um, and you know, that, that kind of brings me to what I love to, uh, ask people whenever I meet them is just how on earth did you, uh, become, you know, the Tom Hunt, uh, that we know right now, the CEO and founder of Fame. How is it, uh, how did you get on this path toward, you know, using podcasts as a business development tool, running a business, and then of course bootstrapping it, which is something I wanna learn from you today.
How did you become Tom?
So what happened is I used to be head of marketing, so I basically used to be our customer. I was head of marketing at a software company. We started a podcast and like long story short, it went really well. Mm-hmm. like it was very profitable for the business. And so then, I was like this, this process is amazing.
Started building the process internally in that business with the team. And so then I was like, so I said to them, I wanna leave and do this. Do, would you be a client? They said, yes. They were our first client and they're still our client now. And we've just taken that same process and then we have implemented it in for different companies.
Wow, that, that is
so cool. So basically you, you did this first and basically proved that it was successful. Um, and, and once you were able to do that, you, you,
uh, uh, you just, you, you found your wings, is that correct? Uh, this is official and this is like if anyone listening. That like wants to start a business.
A really great way, especially in B2B to start a business, is to like work on a small thing or problem or process within your job, right? You're getting paid. Mm-hmm. work on something like. Get it really, really good cuz here you're essentially getting paid to do your business. R r and D. You can't steal any ip, right?
But, or everything you learn you can take with you. So you go in, you find one thing, maybe if, if you're in the legal department, if some kinda legal process, if you're in marketing like we did, if some kinda marketing process and you nail it and you do it really, really, really well for that company. And then if they like you and they think you're great, you are also just amazing at, at your job.
You can say, look, I wanna go and start this. I'm not gonna steal any ip, but I'm gonna run this. Would you be our first client? And so then you've basically got your products or service like improving already and you have your first client and you haven't spent any money because you, you've been paid through your job.
So I think that is like a very underutilized strategy for anyone listening who wants to our business. Especially in b2b, I dunno how well I work in b2c. Um, so that I think is like the first learning that anyone listening who wants to be an entrepreneur take away. Yeah.
No, and, and I think it takes, it takes a really unique.
Leadership, uh, and relationships, you know, within the parent company, um, you know, for that to actually work. There are some people who might feel, Hey, wait a second, you're gonna leave us and you're gonna take us at the same time, . But, but I could see how that could be absolutely beneficial, uh, for both parties, especially when you're so good at what you do.
So, we'll talk about podcasting in a minute because obviously you and I share, share that, uh, that focus, um, But if you were to think about the kind of mindset that the ideal person out there, or not the ideal person, rather the, the, the, the regular person out there listening to us might have that could be blocking them from finding success and starting a business, really, which is what we're talking about, you know, what, what kind of mindset issues do people have to sort of clear out in order to be able to move?
Great question. The obvious one, which has probably been said like way too many times, so I'm still gonna say it while I try to think of a better one. . If so, like just stop giving a shit about, uh, failing and what people will think of you if, if it doesn't go well. Cause that. Because really ultimately the secret to having a business that grows is that, and no one talks about this, it just has to be like better than everything else, than everything else in the market.
And so how do you get better than everything else? You get better than everything else by learning. And what if the fastest way to learn is just to try stuff and fail? So I think that failure, my fear, has been like overdone quite a lot. But the, the secret really. Being good. And I, so I think really what I think the belief that, to answer your question should be is just like if, almost like being competitive, you just have to make it good.
If you're not good, then the business is not gonna grow. Cause your competitors, people will go to your competitors. So, It's like a pursuit of being the best, knowing that you'll never like, be perfect, but just every day, like investing your time and energy into making your thing your product or service a little bit better.
Mm-hmm. . Um, and that comes from a drive and a belief, uh, like in the pursuit of excellence. So that's like the thing that's on my mind at a minute. You
know what I really like about your, your explanation of that is, is the question of, you know, don't be afraid to fail so many of. Are literally stopped in our tracks because we are afraid that it, this or that isn't gonna work out.
And you know, one of the things I've learned, uh, from both studying and my experience now is how you get something done is none of your business. You just have to set the goal. And, uh, allow your mind and circumstances around you to guide you there. It's none of your business. How you gonna do it? Cause when you get stuck in how you gonna do it, you never do it.
as you as you're saying. Um, tell us a little bit more, Tom, about how you help people, um, when it comes or not how you help people, but how your business helps. Other businesses through podcasting actually grow or, or earn results? How exactly, what is
the mechanics of that? I think so again, I'm thinking about the audience here, right?
So I can like share our whole like B2B podcasting methodology. If we think there are people in the audience that are B2B marketers or have B2B companies, or the other one, remember I mentioned that the other people that we help or problem that we solve is for our. . So I could also, cause that's more maybe applicable to all businesses, right?
If, if how you make your team's life better. Mm-hmm. . So we could also talk about that or we can do both. What do you think,
um, you know, tell us about people who, who are out there listening to you right now, who, uh, who wanna know more about how podcasting is linked to business growth? And, you know, it's, you and I might think this is, you know, obviously , right?
But there are people who may not realize the direct connection between. Podcasting and sales and marketing success got, I mean, fame, fame is a great catch name that connects those, but tell us more
about that. All right, cool. So, um, there's a, the other, like the E ethos, P brand, it, it formula. There's a formula for getting famous.
And if you think about anybody, the best example I have is Taylor Swift. Hmm. . And so there's only two things you need. To achieve, to get famous. Step one, create a lot of really good content over a period of months or years, and you have to continually make that content a little bit better and better over time.
Step one, step two, if just be seen around other people that are deemed as famous in the niche that you're creating the content in. So we take Taylor Swift. She started off in country music like maybe when she was 15 or whatever. The music wasn't that good, but then she got better and better until she was like 25 and she was.
Banging out amazing country music. But then at the same time, she was on other country music albums, artists, artists albums, or she was bringing other people onto her albums. Then she switched pop music, and then she did exactly the same thing. Her content gets better and better every month, every year, and she's seen around other famous people.
That's basically all you need to do. And so let's say your business is in. And you help plumbers with their, with like getting leads, uh, in your small, like little town somewhere in the us. So if every plumber in this town in the US knew who you were, you were famous, then that's gonna, your customer acquisition cost is gonna come right down.
So the question is, How do you apply that formula? The famous formula to the plumber, uh, for plumbing marketer in this town of the US used to do two things. You create a lot of really, really good content around the specific niche, and then you're seen around other famous people in the niche. That's all you do now.
So that's the formula. The actual mechanics of that, the podcast is a really easy way of doing this because you, you set your cadence, let's say it's gonna be. You make sure you know everything about the person you're, that you're trying to help, so you can actually solve the problems with the information.
You make sure the information or the podcast gets a little bit better every month. You get, get slightly better editing, you get slightly better guess. You learn more about this topic, et cetera. And then first step one, step two then is just finding the other people that are famous for plumbers in your town and then you bring them on the show.
And then over time, let's say you do that for six months. In theory, every plumber in the town is gonna know who you are because you use the FAME formula, and the podcast really is just a vehicle to get. Yeah.
Wow. That, that's, that's really sharp and that's powerful. And by the way, um, I would argue that, uh, Kanye West is also a great example of , of becoming famous.
And I thought of that when you were talking about Taylor Swift, because we all know the famous Kanye West. Taylor Swift beef that happened at, at the Grammy's, I think it was. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, but I think it's the same principles as you said, you know, um, Kanye West, he produces content. Uh, he's verbose, he's everywhere.
Well, you can't look left and right without seeing or hearing another controversy.
So, so you, well, yeah. If you've seen, have you seen the documentary on Netflix? I have, I have just seen that a big break for him of the rapper was when he just walked into the recording studio and Daisy was recording. I can't remember the song.
Mm-hmm. . Um, but then he just asked JV for a verse, gets up, smashes it, and then that is like a really big breakthrough because he's seen around this other really famous person in rapping. Mm-hmm. . And then if you like, check out his recent albums, he has just like, well, the, my Dark Twisted Fancy album has like 10 other people who are all massively famous in rap and pop music.
So it's the exact same. Yeah. Yeah.
And, and another thing I like about your formula is you don't have to be famous all over the world, like, like Taylor Swift and Kanye West. You just need to be famous in your niche. Right? You, you're talking about a very specific kind of fame that is really about the ideal niche or customer base that you're, you're looking to target.
Correct.
Exactly right. So we have customers that sell software to, like construction companies. Mm-hmm. . And so there's probably like a hundred construction companies that they, that could buy their software. And so it's relatively, if like much easier to, for all of them to know who you are versus for. 1 billion people to know your rap music.
Yeah. And so, yeah, it's, it's just about like, what, what, what are you trying to achieve by becoming famous? If you're trying to like blow up your ego, um, and like become famous to a billion people, then it might take you like 20 years. And the child you do it is like not 0.1%, but if you wanna become famous to the hundred construction companies in the US that can buy a software, you could probably do it in a year with a podcast.
Yeah,
absolutely. And you don't need a hundred million dollar, uh, record company deal either. . Exactly. Um, so to. Tell us your story now. I'm, I'm, I'm just fascinated by the fact that you built this entire thing, bootstrapped. Tell us about that. Um, give us a sort of maybe a, a quick history,
uh, of, of
how, you know, you actually built this.
Um, I'd love, I'd love to know more and I think other people would, would love to know what they can learn from your process.
Yeah. So we, we've covered step, the first, probably the most important step, right? Which is actually building something that was. Which was this podcast process mm-hmm. and then finding the first person that's willing to pay for it.
Mm. So I manage, we, we managed to do this in probably like a six month period and we built something that was good and found someone that could pay for it. And fortunately, they, the ex employer amazing company.com, um, wanted to pay for it. And they weren't like that annoyed that I'd, that i'd, I guess, learnt while I was working there, but that's the way it is.
Yeah. And. This is like the first step to bootstrapping, right? If I didn't do that, I would've had to spend time maybe when I didn't have a job to build something that was good. And that's sometimes why people need money is because how do you live if you are, like, how do you get the time to build something that's good enough to sell if you're not?
Already working at a job. So again, goes back to the point, I think it's probably the best way to start a B2B service or software company right now is to do that. Now, the only difference between service and software is you have people doing the work or micro shifts doing the work. And it's really good actually to transition to, to bootstrap is to start with service because you don't need to pay someone to do the coding and then you can just start automating stuff over time if you make profit.
And so you don't need to raise any money. So, okay, going back to like secrets of bootstrapping. So step one, try to leverage. Your job to learn and build something that's good. Step two is, maybe we could talk about, this is like finding the first customers for your thing. So obviously it's customer number one.
We just covered, let me think about customer. I'm gonna, might get my spreadsheet out to see customers number. Okay. Yeah. So this is quite good. What I did, uh, straight after leaving that job is I started just again going back to the FAME formula. This was in written. Uh, of using like the written approach to the fame formula?
Yep. And all, all I started doing was because I, I just love marketing. Basically. I spent like eight years studying marketing, so I just went and found B2B SaaS companies that had grown fast, and I wrote these like two to 4,000 word case studies with like 15 steps on how they grew. And so I just did that every day.
I, I was like writing and it was like eight of these case studies now in this blog called SAS Marketer. It's still up. Still up. And, and so what, what happened? Is, well actually, sorry. Before the case studies, it was a daily email. So I'd get up every day and I'd write the daily email and it slowly grew. Now there's like 11,000 subscribers, but it was like, there was like 200 back in the day.
Mm-hmm. . And so all I did was I leveraged this like eight years I spent learning about marketing to create content that was valuable. And you can tell it's valuable cause people were reading it. Mm-hmm. and then I. One, I created that content, I managed to get 'em on an email list, and then the first, the next two customers, after that first one came because I built this audience of people in SaaS marketing.
And then, cause I was sending this email and writing these case studies. Then in the PS on the email one day, I was just like, Hey, uh, we run this podcast for this other company. Uh, we've honed this process. Anybody here is, is anyone here interested in startup? And then we got that with the first two clients.
So what are the lessons? There is, again, back to the fame formula, like bang out content that is really, really good in a specific niche. Mm-hmm. . And then once you have people like consuming the content, try and get their, the permission asset, you, you the email address so you can like pitch them. Yeah. Um, so the, the, I dunno how like we could probably go on for ages, but those are the first two lessons.
It's like leverage, ideally someone else. Your your job. Yeah. To build something that's good. Yeah. And maybe get them to be your first client. And then number two is just, um, If you don't have money to spend to get customers, then you have to get their attention somehow. Yeah, and you can do that by creating information.
Let let, let's talk
about that because you've made some really good points. The first point I wanna highlight that you've made is even though you have all these thousands of subscribers, , you had to ask for something, right? You, you, you asked, you made an offer, uh, that, that you, that you knew someone would say yes to, and they said yes.
A lot of people actually struggle with making offers. Mm-hmm. . And so I, I appreciate that. But I, I wanna go back to a question that is implied in everything you've shared. And that is there are really two things you can do in marketing. You can do content marketing, which is what you're talking about, which is what we do.
Or you could do a. Um, and you just made a good point right now, you said if you don't have the money right to, to buy your customers, acquire your customers, if you will. Um, content marketing is a powerful way to do it. Tell us more about the tension between content marketing, which takes longer, right. I mean, you worked really hard to build 11,000 people in a, in your email list versus advertising, which is much faster.
What's your opinion about that? I, I, I know that this is a very big and important topic because of our background. In fact, even because of who. Brought us together, Jake, right? Uh, Jake has gone from the one to the other and back and forth for a while, and so this is a very important topic. Can you gimme a sense of those two, two issues?
Yeah. I
think it depends, like on the, the price of the thing that you're trying to sell. I think because the, as price increases the amount of trust, uh, Or or increases in order for someone to wanna buy something. So if you're selling like a $30 ebook or like a $30 like bracelet, I think I like, I probably wouldn't do content marketing would come much later down the line.
Yeah. And I would use paid spend because you can get that trust in your two minute video ad that you're promoting on Instagram, for example. Now if you're to get one, to get someone to sign up for like a $4,000 a month thing that they might be paying for, for like two years, which is like nearly a hundred thousand dollars, is gonna be very hard to convince someone in a two second Instagram ad that you are gonna be the person to add value to them in that process.
Mm-hmm. so, The thing in Matthew depends on how much the thing is that you're trying to convince someone to buy now. But I still do think there is a role for paid in this B2B, larger AV world. Mm-hmm. . And that is just to ensure that the people that you, that could buy a thing, uh, consuming the information you're creating, not necessarily with the pitch.
Cuz these things take months for people to decide, but if you are there educating, uh, building their trust in you, um, a really good way to actually get them to consume their content is simply just to. To show that video or blog post to them through Facebook or whatever. That's my answer be to like lower AV or lower, like average car value.
Yeah. I would start with paid higher. Uh, I would, paid would probably cover a bit later down the line. Yeah, no.
Awesome, awesome response. I, I think I agree with you that any good marketing strategy should involve, uh, both, um, Over time. However, I, I think, you know, , as you said, some people aren't gonna start out with the amount of money they need to be paid.
And so, uh, content marking almost becomes the default thing they have to do to get started. All right, let's talk some more about your boots shopping process. So the first thing you did was get some education for yourself, uh, usually in a, or you did it in a protected environ. And then you got your first customer and then you, you religiously went after teaching the world, uh, you know, your topic marketing and you did that for a while and built a, an email list, and then you got your second customer.
Tell us more about how you built the business from there going
forward. Yeah, so I think now we have to go back to that point I was making about like being the best. Now one thing I learned, there's an expensive growth course called can't. By two like startup guys on the West coast, really famous growth course Reforge.
And the, the number one thing I loved from that course was that retention is the foundation of growth. So the next thing you do, once you have your first couple of customers, I would like maybe take a step as long as you've got like enough money to live, I'd probably have take a step back from the marketing and sales side and just work on making sure your thing is as good as it possibly can be with the resources that you have so that you retain these people.
Now, even like for us, we. It's just a monthly subscription, right? And so we can very easily see, we, we track the average amount they spend with us and the average number of months people stay. But even if you're selling that bracelet on like Shopify with pay spend mm-hmm. , what like are the other things this person can buy from you?
Cause they love the bracelet so much later. So if retention counts for any kind of business, right? So, What I did, what we did at FAME is we took a step back and we spent probably months working on the process. Like who does what, like how do we document this? How can we ensure this is repeatable and how can we make the experience for the client like absolutely amazing better than any competitors.
Mm-hmm. . So that those three clients would only leave us if something freak happens, their business for that money, etc. Um, so for that 0.3. How good of your thing, how can you make the thing better before you go back to finding, to trying to find more customer? Yeah. Powerful stuff. Powerful
stuff. Now, I would love to know your, uh, experience or belief system around another couple of topics that I think could be controversial or, or maybe, maybe everybody agrees, I don't know.
But it's this idea of profitable happiness, right? Uh, you know, you told me that, uh, you really believe in that and you've seen that in your life, that the two are not, they're not things. Don't work together. They actually can work together and do work together. Tell us your belief system around profit and.
So fames, if you go to the FAME website, what I'm saying, our mission, if, if either our mission or our vision, I get mixed up, um, is to make our clients, guests, and team members happy. That's like the mission of the company, right? Mm-hmm. . And so one way that we do this is that whenever we have a client meeting, we score them at between their and four of happiness for is like they wanna marry us.
Zero is like they wanna kill us. Mm-hmm. . Um, and the other thing to know about our service is that we make more profit the longer people. Because the acquisition cost is amor typed over a greater number of months and typically we, we are more operationalized the longer client stays cuz we just find out all the kinks in the process.
So we, a client stays for two years, is a lot more profitable per month than a client stay for six months. So we know that our only job is to make sure that happiness score on average is going up every after every meeting. Um, and if we can do that, we know we're gonna get more profit at the end. And so this applies, I think, to every.
Like your job is to, number one, increase happiness of your customer. You'll make more profit. But then the other interesting thing, that thing that I think is interesting is that the other stakeholders of your company, like your employees, like anyone else that you are involved with, like the guests of our client podcasts, we can also make them happy.
Then that's also gonna lead to greater profit down the road. Now how can we do this, um, fame again, I said my job with like the founder of the company is to make my team members happy. Mm-hmm. . If the team member's happy, we have lower employee churn, that we have to spend less time and money recruiting. Uh, we have to spend less time and money training and therefore we deliver a better service to our clients with the people that we do have.
Cause we kept them for ages. And then we're gonna make more profit. No one's left fame, by the way. No one, no employees have left. We started two and a half years ago. Um, and so. That, like these two words, profit and happiness in my mind are intimately linked. Cause your job as a business is to make all your stakeholders out of happy.
If you do that, you'll be more profitable. Yeah. You know, I, I have to
agree with you. Uh, a thousand percent. Um, I will say though, that there's another angle to the profit and happiness question that really confuses a lot of people, and that is, How can I be profitable doing the things that make me happy?
Um, you know, so if you look behind me over there, that's, that's a guitar. I'm a musician. And, um, if you know anything about the music industry, I know we talked about Kae and Taylor Swift, uh, those are the lottery winners, , okay? Most of the people who are in music who are actually talented, they don't get those breaks.
So there are many people who say to themselves, my goodness, how can I take this thing that makes me happy? And build profit from it. Now I have a, I have an idea of how I do that, but I would love to know your take on that angle with profitable happiness.
Yeah. I think the, maybe the challenge there is that the link, there is the link between the words, but the link is, is the link is not your happiness and profit if other people's happiness and profit.
Right. Boom. . I love that makes
sense. Yeah. Spoken like a true marketer. You're a good
marketer. There you go. . So the, yeah, like to get like Taylor Swift and Ka, yes, there is luck involved, but like there should be profit in a thing if you can make other people happy from it. And so it goes back to the other point I made about just being better, being good.
Yeah. Um, and like being better or being good is not in your eyes, is subjective based on the person who that is for. Absolutely. If you're the musician, like when you are playing in a concert, you're like looking around to see what songs or what style of music. Performs better, and then you do more of that, and then ultimately you'll be able to make more profit because you'll make more people happy.
Yeah,
yeah. No, I, I, I agree. And thank you from helping with that shift, from, from the me focused to the you focused approach, because that's really the key. Uh, in fact, I would add one more thing to the idea of, of profit and happiness. We don't all have to be Taylor Swift and Kanye West. Not all of us need to be Michael Jackson or Prince.
You can still take your music or whatever it is that makes you happy and use it as a transferable skill, right? Um, within something else that makes profit, okay? Mm-hmm. . And, and so, so as you said, if the focus is. The customer, um, you can still bring your happiness into it and it becomes your differentiator, but it's not necessar necessarily the thing that you sell exclusively.
So I think that's another, another way to look at it. You know, Tom, you and I could talk for. Hours, on these, these topics, but I'd love to know what, what are you most excited about next and where can people reach you to get in touch with you or And fame.
Fame, yeah. So what's exciting me most at the moment is probably just like slowly making the thing that we sell better.
Yeah. Uh, better. The customers, the clients, the guests and the team. Actually, I'm probably most excited about making the team's lives better. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so that's what I, cause I basically, I only do like one or two good hours of work a day. Yeah. And so I just try and make sure I'm left in the morning. I try and make sure there's nothing in the way of that.
And that's what I'm thinking about is how can I improve the lives of these people? Um, and then where can people find me? Yeah. Famous, just fame. So, um, I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter. Tom Hunt io. If anybody have any questions about anything we've said, they can just come to me directly.
Awesome. And, and I know that that's not a very, um, uh, uh, uh, common, uh, domain, uh, dot, so, so I wanna make sure it's f a m e dot, so, is that correct?
Yeah. So the, the, the country of Somalia, ah, but it, um, the, it was popularized by, Uh, then if the notion have the.com, but I think they, they put, so I don't know why. Yeah. So when I was looking, obviously a four letter domain. Yeah. the.com was like slightly out reach of our budget. Yeah. And so I think that was like, The best one available.
And I think it was
definitely a good decision. It it's an, it's an awesome one and, and you're probably like me in which, uh, you know, in terms of, you know, you find that perfect name and you go look for it. It's like, ah, someone's got it , you know? So, um, Tom, it's been a pleasure meeting you and talking with you and learning from you.
Thank you so much for, uh, all the work and the good stuff you do in the world. Um, looking forward to seeing more of you. Thanks for being a guest on our podcast.
Thank you. No, I really enjoyed that conversation and I hope we, um, ha gave the audience some something to think about. I, I think we did.
Absolutely. Absolutely. We'll talk soon. Cheers. Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness Podcast. For more episodes, visit dr p.com and remember, get happy first and success will follow.